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	<title>Comments on: Do whites have it better in Japan?</title>
	<link>http://japan.shadowofiris.com/nihonjinron/do-whites-have-it-better-in-japan/</link>
	<description>japan.shadowofiris.com</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:53:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Tokyo Requiem</title>
		<link>http://japan.shadowofiris.com/nihonjinron/do-whites-have-it-better-in-japan/#comment-538</link>
		<dc:creator>Tokyo Requiem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Apr 2007 02:47:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://japan.shadowofiris.com/nihonjinron/do-whites-have-it-better-in-japan/#comment-538</guid>
		<description>Another anecdote to throw in the mix. I worked in one of the most "Japanese" environments one can imagine (a conservative Japanese political party) for a number of years. I speak near native Japanese, having trained as a simultaneous and consecutive interpreter. Once in a while I got the "wow, you are great with chopsticks" jibe, but otherwise, it was plain sailing. Of course, I had to fit in, walk out the doors the right way with senior politicians etc., but was accepted certainly as different, but not in an overwhelmingly negative way. I'm white btw.

To state my point, to those that get angry about all but the most egregious of slights based on race, I can only say that Japan is not an outlier. After living in the States for five years (not from here originally) I am amazed by the segregation. Look at France. Look at the UK, where I have also lived. Look at Australia. Minorities have a hard time anywhere. To me, being in Japan and white is a simply a good lesson in how the other half lives in most other countries in the world. I don't condone this, but I would also not engage in hyperbole about how bad it is in Japan. One will find, like anywhere, that learning the language to a reasonable level of competency is a prerequisite for being taken seriously in open society. That is true in Japan, but also in the United States, a multicultural society if ever there was one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another anecdote to throw in the mix. I worked in one of the most &#8220;Japanese&#8221; environments one can imagine (a conservative Japanese political party) for a number of years. I speak near native Japanese, having trained as a simultaneous and consecutive interpreter. Once in a while I got the &#8220;wow, you are great with chopsticks&#8221; jibe, but otherwise, it was plain sailing. Of course, I had to fit in, walk out the doors the right way with senior politicians etc., but was accepted certainly as different, but not in an overwhelmingly negative way. I&#8217;m white btw.</p>
<p>To state my point, to those that get angry about all but the most egregious of slights based on race, I can only say that Japan is not an outlier. After living in the States for five years (not from here originally) I am amazed by the segregation. Look at France. Look at the UK, where I have also lived. Look at Australia. Minorities have a hard time anywhere. To me, being in Japan and white is a simply a good lesson in how the other half lives in most other countries in the world. I don&#8217;t condone this, but I would also not engage in hyperbole about how bad it is in Japan. One will find, like anywhere, that learning the language to a reasonable level of competency is a prerequisite for being taken seriously in open society. That is true in Japan, but also in the United States, a multicultural society if ever there was one.</p>
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		<title>By: Turner</title>
		<link>http://japan.shadowofiris.com/nihonjinron/do-whites-have-it-better-in-japan/#comment-283</link>
		<dc:creator>Turner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2007 17:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://japan.shadowofiris.com/nihonjinron/do-whites-have-it-better-in-japan/#comment-283</guid>
		<description>I agree with a lot of those points, but I think we need to divide the worlds, so to speak.  Consider if: there's the teaching environment in Japan - the world of the eikaiwa - and everything else.

In that eikaiwa world, you are absolutely right - the foreigner is hired under the expectation of being "fresh off the boat" as it were.  To act otherwise, even after years of living in Japan, creates a certain standoffishness and suspicion.

I wouldn't go so far as to say "whiteness" is advantageous in Japan.  Mixed reactions, to be sure, and not all of them favorable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with a lot of those points, but I think we need to divide the worlds, so to speak.  Consider if: there&#8217;s the teaching environment in Japan - the world of the eikaiwa - and everything else.</p>
<p>In that eikaiwa world, you are absolutely right - the foreigner is hired under the expectation of being &#8220;fresh off the boat&#8221; as it were.  To act otherwise, even after years of living in Japan, creates a certain standoffishness and suspicion.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t go so far as to say &#8220;whiteness&#8221; is advantageous in Japan.  Mixed reactions, to be sure, and not all of them favorable.</p>
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		<title>By: 314 Man</title>
		<link>http://japan.shadowofiris.com/nihonjinron/do-whites-have-it-better-in-japan/#comment-270</link>
		<dc:creator>314 Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 12:37:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://japan.shadowofiris.com/nihonjinron/do-whites-have-it-better-in-japan/#comment-270</guid>
		<description>"It’d be nice to have an example outside the English industry. The problem again is primarily that NON-Japanese have a predetermined place outside of Japanese society, even while they are in that society. The place for whites is that of a genki English teacher, who must behave as a guest. The place of “Asian migrants” is something more unpleasant, perhaps. Maybe the (racist) stereotype is that they are poor 3K workers. Okay? The problem is still one of pocketing people into predetermined roles, is it not?"

You mention straw hat arguments here.  Do you even read the garbage you spew out on this blog?  If your last blog about calling Devito [sic] names wasn't putting words into someone's mouth than this certainly is.

&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;You need to be more polite if you want to continue to comment here.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

Did you even think for one second about any logical base in your arguments?

&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt; If what I've stated clashes with the facts I'm interested in hearing how.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

What American in their right mind would come to Japan to work for $1,600 a month doing construction work?  NONE!  To a Philipino that is much better than sitting back home searching garbage for lead.  Exporting workers is the biggest business in that country.

&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;I'm all for Asians with competent ability teaching English. I'm not at all convinced Native Speakers are needed so much as competent teachers.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

The worst thing about Japan is that they will give any idiot with a college degree a job at an eikaiwa. 

&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;Again you need to be polite.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

 You mentioned basket weaving, and that might have been the only thing that hit it on the head at all.  I wish they would fix the education system so all of the eikaiwa in the country went out of business.  
 
&lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt; I agree that if schools adequately taught English this would diminish the need for eikaiwa. I also think that schools, to the extent that they are going to teach English, should teach it correctly.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;

It would make it much better for the white professional men living in Japan.  You mentioned it a few times, and I assure you, even a bad day at the office is far better than the best day of teaching english at an eikaiwa.

&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;Good for you if you've escaped the eikaiwa industry. More power to you.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It’d be nice to have an example outside the English industry. The problem again is primarily that NON-Japanese have a predetermined place outside of Japanese society, even while they are in that society. The place for whites is that of a genki English teacher, who must behave as a guest. The place of “Asian migrants” is something more unpleasant, perhaps. Maybe the (racist) stereotype is that they are poor 3K workers. Okay? The problem is still one of pocketing people into predetermined roles, is it not?&#8221;</p>
<p>You mention straw hat arguments here.  Do you even read the garbage you spew out on this blog?  If your last blog about calling Devito [sic] names wasn&#8217;t putting words into someone&#8217;s mouth than this certainly is.</p>
<p><i><b>You need to be more polite if you want to continue to comment here.</b></i></p>
<p>Did you even think for one second about any logical base in your arguments?</p>
<p><i><b> If what I&#8217;ve stated clashes with the facts I&#8217;m interested in hearing how.</b></i></p>
<p>What American in their right mind would come to Japan to work for $1,600 a month doing construction work?  NONE!  To a Philipino that is much better than sitting back home searching garbage for lead.  Exporting workers is the biggest business in that country.</p>
<p><i><b>I&#8217;m all for Asians with competent ability teaching English. I&#8217;m not at all convinced Native Speakers are needed so much as competent teachers.</b></i></p>
<p>The worst thing about Japan is that they will give any idiot with a college degree a job at an eikaiwa. </p>
<p><i><b>Again you need to be polite.</b></i></p>
<p> You mentioned basket weaving, and that might have been the only thing that hit it on the head at all.  I wish they would fix the education system so all of the eikaiwa in the country went out of business.  </p>
<p><b><i> I agree that if schools adequately taught English this would diminish the need for eikaiwa. I also think that schools, to the extent that they are going to teach English, should teach it correctly.</i></b></p>
<p>It would make it much better for the white professional men living in Japan.  You mentioned it a few times, and I assure you, even a bad day at the office is far better than the best day of teaching english at an eikaiwa.</p>
<p><i><b>Good for you if you&#8217;ve escaped the eikaiwa industry. More power to you.</b></i></p>
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		<title>By: James Hart</title>
		<link>http://japan.shadowofiris.com/nihonjinron/do-whites-have-it-better-in-japan/#comment-252</link>
		<dc:creator>James Hart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 10:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://japan.shadowofiris.com/nihonjinron/do-whites-have-it-better-in-japan/#comment-252</guid>
		<description>Just a trackback from &lt;a href="http://tokyo.metblogs.com/archives/2007/04/gaijin_in_japan.phtml" title="Metroblogging Tokyo" rel="nofollow"&gt;Metroblogging Tokyo&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a trackback from <a href="http://tokyo.metblogs.com/archives/2007/04/gaijin_in_japan.phtml" title="Metroblogging Tokyo" rel="nofollow">Metroblogging Tokyo</a></p>
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		<title>By: Behan</title>
		<link>http://japan.shadowofiris.com/nihonjinron/do-whites-have-it-better-in-japan/#comment-241</link>
		<dc:creator>Behan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2007 03:18:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://japan.shadowofiris.com/nihonjinron/do-whites-have-it-better-in-japan/#comment-241</guid>
		<description>'Does she really think whites have it so good in Japan? My guess is most stop having it so good, the day they stop pretending to be guests.'

I totally agree with your point here.  I have lived in Japan nearly 15 years now and I feel really isolated from society.  Although I have gotten pretty familiar with Japan(although as an outsider), it seems that a large majority of this country will never get used to, or accept, people like me.

I have permanent residency and I want to think of myself as an immigrant to Japan but repeatedly, every day I am treated as some strange curiosity.  It's really tiring and I find myself trying to avoid social contact with natives.  

After a long time in eikaiwa I am now working as an ALT and I feel pressure to play the role of the newbie just off the boat.  

I have been told that we 'whites' have it better than other gaijin, but I think this only true to a certain degree.  Anyway, I would rather be seen as just a person than as a stereotypical gaijin or hakujin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Does she really think whites have it so good in Japan? My guess is most stop having it so good, the day they stop pretending to be guests.&#8217;</p>
<p>I totally agree with your point here.  I have lived in Japan nearly 15 years now and I feel really isolated from society.  Although I have gotten pretty familiar with Japan(although as an outsider), it seems that a large majority of this country will never get used to, or accept, people like me.</p>
<p>I have permanent residency and I want to think of myself as an immigrant to Japan but repeatedly, every day I am treated as some strange curiosity.  It&#8217;s really tiring and I find myself trying to avoid social contact with natives.  </p>
<p>After a long time in eikaiwa I am now working as an ALT and I feel pressure to play the role of the newbie just off the boat.  </p>
<p>I have been told that we &#8216;whites&#8217; have it better than other gaijin, but I think this only true to a certain degree.  Anyway, I would rather be seen as just a person than as a stereotypical gaijin or hakujin.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://japan.shadowofiris.com/nihonjinron/do-whites-have-it-better-in-japan/#comment-240</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2007 02:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://japan.shadowofiris.com/nihonjinron/do-whites-have-it-better-in-japan/#comment-240</guid>
		<description>Matt,

Interesting - I would go along the lines of white males have it better than the white females.

White males are only a single minority, ie non-Japanese.

However a blind female from China is a quadruple minority, ie non-Japanese, famale, 3rd world country, handicap.

So in theory, white males could be equal (or better) to Japanese females in the ranking of the society.

Less steps of being a minority, more chances of success in Japan, not just an English teacher, but in all aspects of life in Japan.  Easier loans, housing, jobs, love, education. Not to mention, being less victimized as non Japanese, despite scum like Joji Obara and Tatsuya Ichihashi who prey on women, however if these woman were from 3rd world country, I am not sure if we would even hear about the story.

Where I come from, being a white male can hinder your success, the more the minority you are, better are your chances with the above.

Matt I suggest you get a job as a bartender for a couple months, you will learn more about people in Japan from all walks of life.  Maybe your article will be more well rounded from the heart and not the words of others.

Kind regards,

Ben</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt,</p>
<p>Interesting - I would go along the lines of white males have it better than the white females.</p>
<p>White males are only a single minority, ie non-Japanese.</p>
<p>However a blind female from China is a quadruple minority, ie non-Japanese, famale, 3rd world country, handicap.</p>
<p>So in theory, white males could be equal (or better) to Japanese females in the ranking of the society.</p>
<p>Less steps of being a minority, more chances of success in Japan, not just an English teacher, but in all aspects of life in Japan.  Easier loans, housing, jobs, love, education. Not to mention, being less victimized as non Japanese, despite scum like Joji Obara and Tatsuya Ichihashi who prey on women, however if these woman were from 3rd world country, I am not sure if we would even hear about the story.</p>
<p>Where I come from, being a white male can hinder your success, the more the minority you are, better are your chances with the above.</p>
<p>Matt I suggest you get a job as a bartender for a couple months, you will learn more about people in Japan from all walks of life.  Maybe your article will be more well rounded from the heart and not the words of others.</p>
<p>Kind regards,</p>
<p>Ben</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://japan.shadowofiris.com/nihonjinron/do-whites-have-it-better-in-japan/#comment-239</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2007 01:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://japan.shadowofiris.com/nihonjinron/do-whites-have-it-better-in-japan/#comment-239</guid>
		<description>Asian migrants as 3k workers? There's quite a few in IT...does she consider Indians to be Asian or not?

At any rate, I was surprised you gave this writer the dignity of taking her seriously, especially given that paragraph you cited as the 'straw man.' It's basically a joke, and I don't see it being a part of serious dialog on Japan or relevant to those of us who are non-citizens and have a vested interest in the future of the nation. It just seems typical of the kind of writing coming from (leftish) academia: from the perspective of the academic (not real life experience), filled with shoddy research, an audience only in the ivory tower, and written to support a pre-established thesis/agenda, rather than present an issue fairly.

At any rate, I will finish reading the post, since I do read them all. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Asian migrants as 3k workers? There&#8217;s quite a few in IT&#8230;does she consider Indians to be Asian or not?</p>
<p>At any rate, I was surprised you gave this writer the dignity of taking her seriously, especially given that paragraph you cited as the &#8217;straw man.&#8217; It&#8217;s basically a joke, and I don&#8217;t see it being a part of serious dialog on Japan or relevant to those of us who are non-citizens and have a vested interest in the future of the nation. It just seems typical of the kind of writing coming from (leftish) academia: from the perspective of the academic (not real life experience), filled with shoddy research, an audience only in the ivory tower, and written to support a pre-established thesis/agenda, rather than present an issue fairly.</p>
<p>At any rate, I will finish reading the post, since I do read them all. Thanks.</p>
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